That it breaks the unofficial post-Godwin rule of online discussions? But I think a better idea there would have been to actually remove the statues of the African American man and the Native American man and maybe let Teddy Roosevelt be there to commend him for his support of conservation and his support for the Natural History Museum. The museum preserves many of those statues, and features fascinating exhibits on WWII, and post-war Soviet domestic surveillance. The attacks were acts of protest in response to the prime minister's controversial history. In 2015, Rhodes’ statue was removed from the University of Cape Town’s campus. Some people oppose the removal of any statue because it is like erasing history and argue that people in the past can't be judged by attitudes today - statues should be … How about with people who took up arms against the United States? What is that extreme? With Confederates I’d say no. GREENE: You said something interesting. Peter Berns column: Why people with intellectual disability, like Cory Johnson, should not be executed Jan 11, 2021 It has been nearly 20 years since the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Atkins v. However, it is important to stress that the Civil war which erupted as a result was first and foremost about slavery than about states’ rights. In Birmingham, protesters began attempting to topple the statues … So for instance, I just read today that the Museum of Natural History wants to take down a statue of Theodore Roosevelt that has an African American man and a Native American man standing alongside him while he's astride on a horse. Statues of Washington or Grant, et cetera are begging for historical contextualization. They accuse him in particular of having compensated the settlers after the postage, and demand that statues … It would seem logical that if statues of soldiers offend, then the statues of political leaders should offend more. Here in Washington, D.C., last night, protesters in Lafayette Square right by the White House tried to take down a statue of President Andrew Jackson. If some people find churches and synagogues offensive, should they be torn down? There’s an amazing museum in Tallinn, Estonia called the Museum of Occupation and the Fight for Freedom. That argument is nonsense. Consider the example of gay marriage. All rights reserved. Accuracy and availability may vary. The ideologues are loud, and often dominate the conversation. They must be removed,” according to Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (D-CA). We can do that. All wars feature soldiers who don’t really know why they’re fighting. They were afraid of losing their profits made from using slave labor and, thus, seceded and rebelled against the North. Confederate monuments are back in the news. I’d say yes for British colonialists like Rhodes and Churchill as well. The Confederate statues were put up when they were put up [not just after the war but largely during periods of Civil Rights tension in the 20th century], to send a message about white supremacy, and to sentimentalize people who had actively fought to preserve the system of slavery. Though the rhetorical question “when does it stop?” commits the slippery slope fallacy, the question of where to draw the line is unsettled and philosophically interesting. Police stopped these protesters, but statues are coming down around the U.S., yanked down or removed by local governments. My point here is not that one statue should go and that the other should stay, nor is my point that both should go or both should stay. And many of these statues should fall. Their statues pay homage to hate, not heritage. No. This should be moved into the middle of a busy intersection. It would seem logical that if statues of soldiers offend, then the statues of political leaders should offend more. We’d still have textbooks, museums, and movies. (Barely any have positive impressions of the Nazis). Though many of the arguments defending Confederate monuments are weak, I’ll admit I don’t feel strongly about removing them. >> Find Bernard Poirette's morning show in replay and in podcast here. But, whatever his reasons, there’s no way around the fact that he led a war against the United States of America. Others argue removing the statues would hardly atone for the atrocities committed and is tantamount to erasing history. Statues have frequently been the focus of struggle in defining the past. Boris Johnson: we should not support BLM protests 'likely to end in violence' – video ... his spokesman was ambiguous as to whether he believed no statues should be removed … Four other statues people want removed after slave trader Edward Colston. We should relocate our racist statues to museums where we can remember our racist history in the appropriate context. Removing a few of the most egregious statues will not, as some people fear, erase the histories of these places, nor diminish the cultural heritage their residents are, for … Many went up in the late 1950s and early 1960s, when Civil War veterans were all dead, as were most of their kids. Quoting Donald Trump, Bernstein asks: “Where does it stop?,” a question Hays echoes. “While … Bernstein presents convincing evidence that Lee did not fight because he strongly supported slavery. In contrast to conventional wisdom, this change in attitudes is not simply a case of old people uncomfortable with homosexuality dying off. Bernstein compares memorialized Confederate figures, such as Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson, to slave-owning presidents George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, as well as British colonialists Cecil Rhodes and Winston Churchill. Quoting Donald Trump, Bernstein asks: “Where does it stop?,” a question Hays echoes. The Confederate statues were put up when they were put up [not just after the war but largely during periods of Civil Rights tension in the 20th century], to send a message about white supremacy, and to sentimentalize people who had actively fought to preserve the system of slavery. So what do you think of moving into a broader swath of statues coming down and - or being targeted? As they made their case, American attitudes changed rapidly, with “favor” overtaking “oppose” in 2011. If Baltimore takes down its Confederate statues, I support them. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record. And while it is true that many of the Virginian Founding Fathers - Washington, Jefferson, Madison - all owned slaves, we put up their statues not to commemorate their slave holding but for different reasons. The fight is endless, and failing to hold the line will just result in the next battle being fought on less favorable ground. A petition won the support of many students but, in 2016, the college decided not to remove the statue. Others argue removing the statues would hardly atone for the atrocities committed and is tantamount to erasing history. Movement in one direction does not guarantee further movement in that direction. How does removing or vandalising such landmarks help with the anti-racism movement? Take away these men who seem to be inferior to Roosevelt, but leave him. No. So why are Confederate statues being removed? The … He argues that all have complicated histories, all did bad as well as good, and therefore there is no logical reason to remove statues of some but not others. Therefore, argue against removing statues to Washington, insist there’s no way to do one without the other, and declare Confederate monuments defended. Now there is intense controversy over whether the statue should be removed. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. But they still fought for Hitler. Do you think that goes too far? “Could someone marry an 8-year-old? And that many Confederate soldiers fought not for abstract principles like racial superiority or states’ rights, but because Union soldiers were fighting near their homes. From the Editorial Board:Remove Confederate monuments to America's original sin of slavery Tear down systemic racism brick by brick. They weren’t even erected to honor Confederate soldiers’ service. Statues are not history.” ... prime minister controversial statues in Canada Influential Canadians John A Macdonald statue removal controversial statue removed famous canadian. A campaign began under the hashtag #RhodesMustFall during which students demanded the statue be removed. And in that time, we have repeated the mistakes of the past. That’s why taking down Confederate statues does not guarantee we will take down monuments to slave-owning Founding Fathers. I think the difference that Floyd's murder has made is that most American citizens are finally realizing what they represent. Should the statues be removed? They don’t stop when you capitulate to their incessant demands. We haven’t forgotten the Holocaust or World War II, even though there aren’t statues of Hitler and Rommel everywhere. This is why, even though I think many should be removed, they should not disappear completely. If a private homeowner has a crèche on his front yard during the Christmas season, should that be removed because some atheists are offended? ... Cardiff Lord Mayor Dan De'Ath says the memorial should be removed … A STATUE of the controversial 19th-century figure Cecil Rhodes at Oxford University should not be removed, according to a poll of Express.co.uk readers. Macdonald’s penchant for violence and degradation toward Indigenous … GREENE: But is there an argument that removing these statues could help further the fight for racial equality in our country? Some have tried the “no-platforming” argument, entirely missing the point: no-platforming may be bad, but to remove a statue is not to “no-platform”. A website has now emerged, toppletheracists.org, identifying the statues that, it says, must be removed. The Estonians definitely have not forgotten their history, even though the statues no longer grace their streets. Slaves were the basis of the Southern economy at that time. And then he went on, in fact, to defeat the Confederacy, which was extremely important in the destruction of slavery. Or a snake?”. In Birmingham, protesters began attempting to topple the statues themselves. The reason pertains to the fact that confederate statues have been up for the last 130 years or so. That’s true of every war. Defending them was among the official reasons for the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia. But on most things they’re evenly matched. They were all in evidence in Charlottesville, Va., on Aug. 12, when a protest over the planned removal from a city park of a statue of the Southern Civil War general Robert E. … So what should be the standard for taking down a statue? Every single one. After the Iron Curtain fell, Estonians pulled down statues of Russian and Estonian communists. (Yes, even if that’s not what the Stars and Bars means to you personally, that’s what it is). And I think most Civil War historians have been against Confederate statues - if not removal, at least with contextualization. That strikes me as a good model. The Confederate soldiers were the separatists who did not want to obey their country’s policies. It’s hard to see the timing as anything other than a backlash to advancements in African Americans’ political rights. Peter Berns column: Why people with intellectual disability, like Cory Johnson, should not be executed Jan 11, 2021 It has been nearly 20 years since the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Atkins v. But don’t expect the statue to be taken down soon, as a past attempt by African American pastors to have the bust removed was denied. The big spike, including most of the monuments on courthouse grounds, came in 1907–1912. The biggest annual increases occur right after the NAACP was founded in 1909. Not because there aren’t people who want to go much further than removing Confederate statues and would use success as a jumping off point to their next cause, but because many Americans aren’t ideologues. Jackson was a slave owner. Go too far, and you lose the moderates. Proponents of legalizing same sex marriage sold moderates on that idea, and that idea alone. But all the Estonians who suffered under Soviet occupation don’t have to see a regular reminder of it if they don’t want to. And a few still fight to change the law back. I think the difference that George Floyd's murder has made and that's been a bit heartening for me is that ordinary American citizens have finally realized what these statues symbolize and how they have been a standing affront for African Americans and their quest for equal citizenship in this country because Black Americans have always been against it. Not surprisingly, a recent Morning Consult-Politico poll shows only 32 percent of respondents favor the removal of Confederate statues. SINHA: Well, I think it is important not to go from one extreme to the other. SINHA: I think when you go down that slippery slope, maybe it might backfire. What I fear is the hatred we see in real time in 2017 on social media and in our political rhetoric. SINHA: I think then it becomes a purely destructive exercise, a way you are simply destroying all monuments and all statues. Yesterday, people were spotted trying to fish the statue of Colston out of the Bristol harbour as conflict emerged over how the protesters have behaved and whether statues should be removed. Protests over Floyd's death in Minneapolis have refocused the country's attention on police brutality and racial injustice. We drew the line at two consenting adults. In Martinique, these statues have long been criticized and actions have been taken against them. Statues of Thomas Guy and Robert Clayton, who made their money off the slave trade, are being removed. Should bikinis be outlawed if Muslims are offended? But I don’t claim other answers are unreasonable. That sentiment is unfortunately common in today’s politics. We shouldn't shy from the fact that many of these men were slave owners, but we should also be able to judge each case individually. So what should be the standard for taking down a statue? Because they honor individuals — and because many observers just see a statue of some guy without knowing the details — the monuments are not as clearly inappropriate as, say, statehouses flying a traitorous, pro-slavery flag. Further, Americans pay to have Confederate statues and the associated values on display. So, the Southern states preferred to start the Civil war, rather tha… If they succeeded, they would have created a country dedicated to subjugating black people. Nevertheless, the claim that there’s no way to create a consistent standard is inaccurate. GREENE: Oh, so actually edit the arrangement of the statues. These generals may be dead and gone, but people who share their hateful worldview are still with us. But public attitudes and the law moved left, and the result has not been a leftist-led push to legalize plural marriage, or marriage between siblings, or anything else that arguably fits under the consenting adults principle. NEW YORK. So for instance, a lot of the sort of backlash against taking down Confederate statues was precisely this. We don’t honor Benedict Arnold, Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, or other traitors. This is why communities across the region have a moral obligation to take up the cause of removing them. A common argument against removing the monuments is that taking them down would scrub or willfully forget history. That is why we erect statues, not to glorify the dead, but to inspire the living. Removing Confederate monuments is not “removing history.” It is removing a dishonorable cause from a place of honor. (The oligarchy was a rather small club back in the day.) And that is, in fact, a very imperialist vision. Not every statue or piece of public art has to comfort and console us. NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information. Lee, therefore, saw himself as defending his state of Virginia. It’s also wrong. He freed that slave. Activists in Durham, North Carolina pulled down a statue, and then dozens of people turned themselves in (like in Spartacus). They’re not the same as same sex marriage, and moderates haven’t had trouble drawing the line. The Confederate statues have no redeeming qualities to them, but other statues certainly do. According to Speaker of the sort of backlash against taking down a statue Nazis ) petition won the of... Warriors are insatiable American citizens are finally realizing what they represent, whites still! Annual increases occur right after the Iron Curtain fell, Estonians pulled down a statue, and society written... I 've been against it all along erase it statues to museums Where we can remember racist! 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